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Crackdown on unregistered landlords who get state funds

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  • Crackdown on unregistered landlords who get state funds

    UP to 8,000 landlords getting state payments will be warned in the coming weeks to register their properties or face prosecution.

    The Private Residential Tenancies Board (PRTB) last night said it planned a major crackdown on non-compliant landlords, with eight to be prosecuted next month.

    And chief executive Ann Marie Caulfield said the agency had received data about landlords in receipt of state payments from the Department of Social Protection and local authorities, and would begin checking all to confirm they had registered their properties.

    Failure to register can result in a fine of up to €3,000 and/or six months imprisonment, plus daily fines of €250.
    http://www.independent.ie/national-n...s-2800483.html
    To be fair,its a bit bloody Irish that this has gone on for so long.....

    You have been warned.

  • #2
    Shark that means that some LLs are getting away with this for seven years now. I wonder will penalties apply.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bessa View Post
      Shark that means that some LLs are getting away with this for seven years now. I wonder will penalties apply.
      They better pray they are not audited Bessa

      Not mentioned is the fact that non compliant Landlords not registered with the PRTB are not able to write off the interest portion of the mortgage against rental income,those that have been doing so are making false income tax returns.A serious offense.

      To those who have been dodging this and are now back peddling,you cannot register a tenancy that has finished/lapsed,so you better hope you are not audited in the next few years.

      There has recently been an increase in the cost of maintaining this quango…it probably would not have been necessary had these dodgers paid their way like the rest of us.

      I would say the chance of an audit from Revenue for these guys on foot of this is exceptionally high.

      I am sure there will be a flood of posts here shortly along the lines of "whats a PRTB?" and my favourite "Have been renting for 5 years I only just found out about the PRTB today..."

      Comment


      • #4
        The ability to cross-check data seems to be just one of a number of changes. Also proposing making rent allowance payments directly to landlords:

        Mr Penrose also proposed moving responsibility for rent allowance from the Department of Social Protection to the Department of the Environment to assist in the cross-checking of payments. Mr Penrose also proposed to change the arrangement where payments were made to the tenant as these were often not passed on in a timely fashion to the landlord. “You have to have balance,” he said, “it will be better for landlords too.”

        http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...299226749.html

        if this is introduced, it'll save a lot of landlords a lot of grief.

        Curiously, elsewhere in this article, says that "almost 47 per cent of landlords in receipt of rent allowance payments had not registered tenancies with the board". If 47% in these cases, what would be in private rental agreements...

        Am I the only one registered with the PRTB?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Shark Trager View Post

          To those who have been dodging this and are now back peddling,you cannot register a tenancy that has finished/lapsed,so you better hope you are not audited in the next few years.
          FYI. I know of at least 3 people who were able to backdate registrations of tenancies that had already expired. I fully endorse a crackdown that will increase Prtb revenue, not to mind income tax and nppr too. There's still a fair few rogue operators out there and others who think that because the rent is less than the mortgage, income tax doesn't apply to them.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by alancahill View Post
            Also proposing making rent allowance payments directly to landlords:

            if this is introduced, it'll save a lot of landlords a lot of grief.

            Am I the only one registered with the PRTB?
            Rent supplement payments should always have been given direct to Landlords. Even Threshold support this .... they should also change the timing of payments to recognise that rent should be paid in advance and not in arrears

            I wonder will the Company behind "Dutch Gold" lobby to prevent this change .... probably a good time to sell those shares ....

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Shark Trager View Post
              I am sure there will be a flood of posts here shortly along the lines of "whats a PRTB?" and my favourite "Have been renting for 5 years I only just found out about the PRTB today..."
              Shark you are spot on ... only a matter of time .... would be funny except the rest of us are subsidising them ... I for one am fed up paying for those who do not contribute .... my list is endless.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Treeshea View Post
                FYI. I know of at least 3 people who were able to backdate registrations of tenancies that had already expired.
                Yep we have nothing in common with Greece..

                What a joke...how in the name of Christ can you register a tenancy that has expired...that typifies whats wrong with this Country.

                Until the f**kwits who run quangos on this basis are fired without payoffs for this level of sheer incompetence...nothing will ever change,9 years late and they are now cracking down on dodgers???

                47% of LLs receiving S.W payments are not even registered??

                The person in charge of the PRTB should be sacked,no ifs buts or maybes.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The PRTB is an independant body, meaning it is actually a privately registered company that trades for profit. You can find them listed in Dun&Bradstreet. In regards to unregistered landlords being "obliged" to register with the PRTB, this is wholly untrue and cannot be documented or verified or enforced by any law. If you understood law you would see this. In order for anyone to be able to claim an obligation over you, they must be able to prove that this obligation exists in the first place by producing a contract of the parties or by showing that their policies have the force of law over you. But if you are not registered with them, you are not on their books and therefore their policies do not apply to you. This is because a statute is a given rule of a society that can only obtain the force of law by consent. This is because it is a DeFacto legislation, a transaction of a security interest if you will, and not a law. Being that it is such, it requires consent and your consent cannot be enforced by someone else upon you otherwise you would be unlawfully registered against your will and would therefore be under duress. The PRTB's game of forcing all landlords to register with them by claiming some invisible obligation over you is the typical game used by the government to make you falsely believe that statutes and acts are laws. Here are some maxims in law that might come in useful to you.

                  Nobody is obliged to accept any benefit against their will, anyone may renounce a law introduced for their own benefit. Consent makes the contract, consent makes the law.

                  The PRTB is another state sponsored quango, that manipulates the lie of legalities in order to hold power over you. If you are not registered with them, you are not under their control. If they tell yo uthat you are "obliged" to register with them, then ask them to document and verify the obligation on their full commercial liability and under penalty of perjury in a court of law. See what happens. They will keep trying, might even try to get the courts to force you, but keep askign that they document and verify the obligation and if they can't then you are under no obligation to them.

                  I experienced my own dodgy landlord who defrauded the DSFA by lying to them about how much he was charging us for rent, failed to inform them that he was charging over 200 a month extra that he was not supposed to get and he did it on the day of the tenancy when he knew that our family had no more time to find a house. To top all this off, the PRTB disregarded the fact that there were two conflicting PRTB registration forms, they disregarded the fact that there was actual evidence and proof of fraud having been committed and yet they still found in his favour.

                  The PRTB are only interested in your money folks, this was an institution set up by the government under the cover of resolving disputes, but as usual it's just another means to generate revenue whilst keeping the population quiet. A quango, that commits fraud, covers corruption and takes no accountability, and yet everything they do makes them alot of money. Only a gullible mind would even consider that this establishment is there to help them. I personally think it's time we got rid of these institutions for good. But then the Irish will put up with so much before they actually do anything.

                  Did you also know that there is NO CCTV covering the adjudication rooms, so if a landlord / tenant spends time alone with the adjudicator, or gets violent in the room you are NOT protected in any claim.
                  Last edited by annanukian; 24-06-2011, 02:27 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Wow! You obviously lost a PRTB case as a tenant, your post is inaccurate - landlords ARE required to register with the PRTB and it IS laid down in the law - the RTA 2004. Also I think you should be careful about making claims such as fraud etc that you cannot prove..

                    No landlord want to pay fees tot he PRTB but face it, it is the law

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lara View Post
                      Wow! You obviously lost a PRTB case as a tenant, your post is inaccurate - landlords ARE required to register with the PRTB and it IS laid down in the law - the RTA 2004. Also I think you should be careful about making claims such as fraud etc that you cannot prove..

                      No landlord want to pay fees tot he PRTB but face it, it is the law
                      You are referring to the Residential Tenancies Act 2004, which is a Statute / act, a given rule of a society that has the "force of law". Having the force of law, and being a law in and of itself are not the same.

                      Yes Landlords are required to register with the PRTB because if they did not there would be no PRTB would there? but required by whom? And What is the difference between being required to do something and being obliged to? The point I am making is that it is not a law, it is a transaction of a security interest. You pay them, they adjudicate any dispute you may have in return. This is a business, and like every other independant quango they follow the money.

                      Let me be clear, I will stand up to my end of the bargain and keep my agreement to pay this landlord despite the fact that I genuinely feel that an injustice was done to me. But making a point here of the fact that the quango culture is a failed disaster and it has ruined everything it was put in place to protect and it will destroy the residential lettings industry. There is evidence of this left right and centre if you look I won't go into naming other companies who forced people under legislative rules of some other society, to register with them only to find out later on that money was being fiddled, or elderly people and young people died and bribes were being taken or cover-ups had to be exposed on RTE before anything was seen to be done. You would be fooling yourself to think that this culture is not still continuing around the country despite the so called recession. This carry on has gone on in every westernised nation on earth and it's pressurising effects are now building into an international revolution.

                      You would be very gullible if you believed that anyone can create an obligation upon you out of thin air and not have to prove it. Okay here is the RTA2004, it has been given the force of law, but by whom? The government? The only form of governance that is lawful in this country is a representative one, if you are implying that anyone is obliged to be represented by anyone against their will you are very much incorrect. There is a maxim in law that states: anyone can renounce a law introduced for their own benefit. There is another which states: nobody is obliged to accept a benefit against their will.

                      The biggest mistake of people in this country is to assume we are a democratic state, we are not. We are a Sovereign democratic state which is quite different. Each and every one of us is a sovereign citizen, nobody can give away my sovereignty on me and I can not give away anyone elses.

                      The RTA 2004 only has the force of law when you consent to accept it do have the force of law. Don't take my word for it, research it before you go assuming that it is a law.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by annanukian View Post
                        You are referring to the Residential Tenancies Act 2004, which is a Statute / act, a given rule of a society that has the "force of law". Having the force of law, and being a law in and of itself are not the same.

                        Yes Landlords are required to register with the PRTB because if they did not there would be no PRTB would there? but required by whom? And What is the difference between being required to do something and being obliged to? The point I am making is that it is not a law, it is a transaction of a security interest. You pay them, they adjudicate any dispute you may have in return. This is a business, and like every other independant quango they follow the money.

                        Let me be clear, I will stand up to my end of the bargain and keep my agreement to pay this landlord despite the fact that I genuinely feel that an injustice was done to me. But making a point here of the fact that the quango culture is a failed disaster and it has ruined everything it was put in place to protect and it will destroy the residential lettings industry. There is evidence of this left right and centre if you look I won't go into naming other companies who forced people under legislative rules of some other society, to register with them only to find out later on that money was being fiddled, or elderly people and young people died and bribes were being taken or cover-ups had to be exposed on RTE before anything was seen to be done. You would be fooling yourself to think that this culture is not still continuing around the country despite the so called recession. This carry on has gone on in every westernised nation on earth and it's pressurising effects are now building into an international revolution.

                        You would be very gullible if you believed that anyone can create an obligation upon you out of thin air and not have to prove it. Okay here is the RTA2004, it has been given the force of law, but by whom? The government? The only form of governance that is lawful in this country is a representative one, if you are implying that anyone is obliged to be represented by anyone against their will you are very much incorrect. There is a maxim in law that states: anyone can renounce a law introduced for their own benefit. There is another which states: nobody is obliged to accept a benefit against their will.

                        The biggest mistake of people in this country is to assume we are a democratic state, we are not. We are a Sovereign democratic state which is quite different. Each and every one of us is a sovereign citizen, nobody can give away my sovereignty on me and I can not give away anyone elses.

                        The RTA 2004 only has the force of law when you consent to accept it do have the force of law. Don't take my word for it, research it before you go assuming that it is a law.
                        You're right on most of this. There are a few lines buried deep within the RTA 2004 [don't recall exactly where - it's a while since I looked at it, but do recall being very surprised] that very obliquely suggests that registration is not an absolute legal obligation... some thing along the lines of "you can't avail of PRTB dispute resolution procedure unless you're registered... but can, instead, take dispute to High Court" (obviously that's not financially practical, but that's beside the point).

                        But, annanukian, you're forgetting one very salient point - if a landlord's not registered, he/she cannot claim mortgage interest against rental income for taxation purposes. So, even if you're not legally obliged to register, you're certainly financially/practically obliged. You could certainly question whether that's constitutional.

                        Also, I'm not altogether sure that you're coming at this from a entirely objective perspective. The parts of the previous post that I've put into bold above...? Touches of entrenched Marxism and Anarchism to boot. No? Yes?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Freeman bullshit!

                          http://freemanireland.ning.com/
                          Last edited by rachman; 02-07-2011, 09:17 PM.

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